how to find out the carrier center position?????

[denis]

Hello,
i´m a young guy from germany and i´m new in this forum,i would need a lil help from you Jim and the other guys because i must swap the gears but i never make this job .Ok,The rear is 10 bolt 7,5" from a Olds and i don´t know how i figure out the right center position of the carrier to set the correct pinion depth???
I know the simplest way is to buy a Pinion Depth Set Up Tool maybe from Pro Form,but i haven´t the $$$$$$.
I´m not sure but if i measure the carrier bearing race only and Divide this number by two will this be the center position at the carrier?????Or must i measure the carrier bearing bore,too????

Best regards from Germany

I know my english is not the best but i hope you understand me???

[monzaz]

Hi Denis, Well here is what we do in the back yard world.

1.) remove your old pinion inner bearing
2.) if in still good condition hone the inner diameter out so it is a tight slip fit...do not make it too sloppy or it will not work good.
3.) Now you have your set-up tool. (you will also need a magnetic base dial indicator...a must)
4.) use the original pinion shim to start with. (.035 is a good start too.)
5.) assemble the diff with the pinion crush sleeve OUT and the pinion seal out too makes life easier and that pinion seal should be replaced anyway.
6.) put the outer bearing in then the yoke and the nut and washer ...tighten snug with some drag...NOT SUOER TIGHT so it does not move!
7.) drop in the carrier and use your carrier shims here to get the the backlash in at between .005 -.010 keep shifting the shims around left to right etc. (measure the originals example 1 .250 and .240 equals .490 so your total shimming should always equal this or close example 2 .230 and .260... like that. ) use some common sence if it does not fit take some out this is all preliminary set-up dont get to anal yet....lol.
8.) mark the gear with your compound both sides of about 6 teeth and spin it. rock it back and forth when you get the compound marked area to the pinion tooth mesh. This will help get a pattern on both sides of the gear quicker.
9.) Check the pattern it should be centered on both side and cover a nice circular oval area of the gear tooth on the drive side... (convex side) This is the most important side to consentrate on. BUT some times you may have to reference the coast side(concave side) to be absolute on a pattern position.
10.) feel is another advanced method I like to use too. if it is set-u right it will be nice and smooth and quiet. Any metal scratching noise dry may clue you into that the set-up is off also. It will feel good one way and tight or metalicey the other way.

11.) best to trust that pattern. The gear will let you know where it wants to be.
-if the pattern is too toward the inside of the drive side gear face and to far out on the passenger side face you need to use a thinner pinion shim and or move ther pinion away from the posi unit. If the pattern is oppisite you need to move the pinion closer to the posi unit or add shim. only go in .005 thousand steps of pinion shim this way you can see the pattern move across the gear face and determine you are going in the correct directing with shimming.
12.) You may have to disassemble and reassemble the rear many times before a satisfactory pattern is acheived. YOU MUST RESET THE BACKLASH EVERYTIME YOU CHANGE A PINION SHIM...YOU MUST KEEP THE BACKLASH CLOSE TO THE SAME EVERYTIME YOU RECHECK THE PATTERN OR YOU WILL NEVER GET A TRUE READING AND ALL WILL BE LOST.
13.) ABOVE all take your time. do not try to accomplish it in one day. If you think you have the pattern ...walk away or come back th enext day and check it again. If it still looks good then remove the set-up honed bearing and press on the new good inner bearing then reassemble the whole thing with new crush sleeve seal etc. The crush sleeve must be done with out the carrier in the housing to get a true 25 inch pound spin reading.
14.) always use your resources for help...YOU HAVE USE. please do ask if you are not sure. we will help you through it as long as we have time. Ok? Take care and good luck with it.

Sincerely , Jim

[denis]

WAAAOW ----Thanks,

now i need a day to translate your back yard instruction.
Write you back in the next day!

regards from germany
Denis

[monzaz]

Yes I know. There may be stuff that I used terms you do not understand becuase of language barrier. PLEASE do ask if you do not get a certain area I will always try to explain a different way. Not a problem. Jim

[denis]

i have start yesterday and i still have a few question.....

-please say can i use any other method to check the pinion bearing withoud the beam style wrench because i can´t found this tool here in f..germany?

-And must i bolt the carrier bearing caps every time if i check the B.L(the rear is out of the car)??

-and i really not understand how is the process to set the pinion preload and crush the sleeve´...... pleeease

-and if i remember it will better to dry the p. bearing in a light coat of oil before set the pinion bearing preload..is this true???






...

[denis]

now
i have set the BL.at 0.007 but if i measure the B.L a few other points i measure approximately 0.005 -0.008.

what do you think is the reason????

[monzaz]

Could be dirt behind the gear mounting face. Or the run out on the gear is a bit off. Or you have dirt under a carrier bearing. That is a tolerable run out though. How does your pattern look? you can send a picture to mitschke454@windstream.net. we are working on getting the pic thing here on this site to down load easier. Jim

Crush sleeve: When you have everything right put your outer pinion bearing in then the seal, slide the crush sleeve on the pinion and put it into the housing. slide on the yoke. if you do not have enough threads to get the washer and nut on at the same time themn just pull the yoke on with the nut till there is enough room for the washer and draw it on the rest of the way. Now, The pinion yoke must be held in place while you torque the 1 1/4 nut to crush the pinion sleeve. Back yard tools BIG pipe wrench and a pipe extension for leverage on both the pipe wrench and the 1 1/4 wrench. Oh put the whole housing on a contrete surface when doing this... Makes life easier and you can use the ground as leverage too.
Keep checking the in/ out play on the bearings every 1/4 turn. Once there is NO in/out play on the inner and outer pinion bearings keep tightening till there is a slight drag. MAKE SURE THE BEARINGS have oil on them or you will have a false feel. This is how you do it with out a torque wrench. The pinion should spin nice and smooth but no spin freely like a wheel on a car. Ok? Jim

Keep your questions coming will get you there. Jim

[denis]

I have send you a few pics.

-I have clean one more time all parts and break the edge(bevel/antialiasing) of the carrier shims.

the backlash is now 0,008-0,012"

-I have check radial run-out of the C.bearing caps = both OK.

-an i check axial run-out of the C.bearing caps= one is OK,and the other i have measure a run out of 0,0005" but i think this is OK,too.

What do you think about the backlash,it will be OK????? Or it will be better
to check the gear mounting face or maybe the run out on the gear ???

It will be better bolt the carrier bearing caps every time if i check the B.L(

[monzaz]

Caps must be installed for a proper final backlash check. Please try to keep the backlash tighter than .009 .012 is too much in my book. Play with the shims you should find the right combo. Jim

[denis]

about the B.L:
OK, i will to try tighter.

about a job:
from when to when is lunch time?


about the pattern:
i really can´t believe it,i open the Marking Compound and use them once time.........NO NO NO i can´t believe it.
Where is the challenge.Have you see the pictures correct,i saw two pics are not so good(out of focus).
I have thinking the pattern must be more centered between hell and toe.
I know you are the gear master but look at the pics one more time and say me is the pattern OK.....or PERFECT,i really will not stress you out jim i only wanted to try the best result and then i know for my YEEP... that is it.

about the BL.
---part 2----
i will send you new pics with the B.L

Denis

[monzaz]

Well you can tear it down and play with it if you like. Just remember the exact combo you used so you can put it all back the same way. Write it all down on a paper the side shim thickness driver and passenger and the pinion shim. Then you can PLAY PLAY play till your hearts content.

Thrown in about 5-10 on the pinion and see hat happens so you can see what the depth does to the pattern. this way you will understand the way things work. Each time you change the pinion shim you MUST reset the carrier shim packs to keep the backlash at the same .005-.009 BL .

What shim did you use? the original one in the housing or not? Jim

[denis]

i can´t insert the original shims(L=0.228" R=0.256 )

the shims that i now use are L-0.247 R=0.217

[denis]

jim,i have measeure the axial run at the carrier ring mounting s.face and it have a run of max.0,004!

i think this is the reason why the B.L dance from .008 to .012 or .004 to .008...

i have the option to grinding the mounting surface to a perfect zero run,maybe this will be the best solution because i have a bad feeling with this B.L travel.

i will try to bolt the ring to another position at the carrier and maybe it will be better?!!

[mr.smartboard]

(Moved for jim)

Yes that will always most likely happen. That is where everyone goes wrong. The shims are for backlash and with any gear change or unit swap they ALMOST ALWAYS be different then the origianl ones used. Do save them for you never know when your gonna do another rear diff. lol. So it is all togehter and ready for fluid? Remember to pour the fluid throught the back cover this way it will not take forever to squeeze it in throught the little fill plug.

Wishing you well and be careful out there. Smile.. Jim

[monzaz]

You could just have some dirt behind the ring gear mounting surface and the carrier flange. disassemble and clean both sides with a fine tooth file or stone to be certian they are truely clean and clean from burrs.

reassemble and try once more. Jim