1964 Cutlass "Frankenstein Build" is Alive but Idle drops with Custom Cam

[Nic_SwissCutlassDude]

avs2 1906 carb is a square bore carb...YOUR picture is a spread bore carb....??? So what carb do you really have?
Jim

Hi Jim
i have a Edelbrock 1906 AVS 2

[Nic_SwissCutlassDude]

Avs2 1906 carb is a square bore carb...YOUR picture is a spread bore carb....??? So what carb do you really have?
Hi Jim Thanks for still stickin`to it!
i have a Edelbrock 1906 AVS2.

Did those drilled holes come factory in the carb?
No these are not factory.. i closed them on the Primary side again yesterday durring "Carb. Rebuild"-

If not Why did they get drilled?
Some say it would help Idle with rougher cams.. so i gave it a try.. was almost same as before just.

They are calling this carb on summit site a SQUARE bore...BUT it is not it has front primaries smaller than the secondaries...THIS IS A spread bore carb. BUT that really is a moot point in the trouble your having...I am just trying to look up specs on the carb you are using. Jim

I have the Edelbrock 2711 Intake Manifold (Olds 350 Performer) + 1 x Adapter Plate "Edelbrock Nr. 2696"
https://www.edelbrock.com/carb-adapter- ... -2696.html

I`m still working on some experiments and will post more details tomorrow as soon i have my new Timing Sheet ready

Thanks for all so far!

[monzaz]

Wow, You have plenty of UNCOMMON things on top of this motor.
So what intake do you have? looks like a standard q jet intake spread bore intake.
I do not understand why they are calling your carb a square bore. square bore will have all the bores the same size.

How do your gaskets fit on the spacer to the carb. I ask this because in the picture it shows a Same equal diameter bore carb gasket BUT your car is NOT.

I am starting to get spooked... Jim

[Nic_SwissCutlassDude]

Hi Jim!
sorry for the delay!! Alot of things beside my car happend over the last view days.. so well, here we go....

i think i found the problem.

After a few more fails & try outs, starting with the Harmonic Balancer "Slip" check, or maybe false "Timing Marks" on the Balancer or the aftermarket "Timing Tab", cause i have a 1964 Engine and use a 65` Waterpump, so it needs 1965 Timing Tab.

Side Note: 1965 Waterpump has the inlet on the "Right" side, The 1964` Waterpump on the Left. So i had to get a other "timing tab" back in 2020, cause the 1964 would be underneath the Waterinlet if you choose to go with a 1965 & upwards Waterpump.

The Balancer has to be one that has the TDC matching to this Waterpump situation & Timing Tab to read the correct timing..

Anyway, hours later.. all "Could be`s" were good.

then i took the carb off again and inspected only the Idle circuit and cleand it "again"... i took some airpressure, breakcleaner & a mircro-brush..
got it back on the car again and there was stiiiilll the same problem..

So i took my NEW quick "CO Tester" to see in what "CO Range" i am with all of these problems... it showed a CO of 6.8 !! to "Rich" .. i tried the idle Mixtures Screw again, but no big changes... soo i got a bit Angry and took a Spray Can of Breakcleaner and sprayed the Intake allover, aswell on Bolts & Vac Links i didn`t expected it could be a problem..

THEN!! there was a reaction, so strong the engine turn off.. THE REAR MANIFOLD BOLTS (see Pictures), underneath the Iginition Coil and opposite too..

They were tight.. approx 25 LBS/ft but they Sucked AIR thru the Washers down that shaft to where ever... So i took one by one bolt out and filled the hole with Heat-Resistant Engine RTV Silicone (i dont like it that much, but.. hm) . to prevent and other leaks it creamed the edges at manifold / heads too .. (see picture) ..

Next Day, i startet the car.. checked with my "CO Tester" adjusted IMS (Idle mix Screws) and Idle Speed screw down to 700 Rpm (no Vacuum Adv. Connected) and got my 3.5 CO adjustement on both sides..

I drove without Vac. Advance on 12Degree @ 800 RPM / 27 Degree @ 1600 RPM / 35.7 Deg. @ 2700RPM / 36 Deg. @ 3500 and 2x MSD Silver Light Springs (points distributor) and it was okay to drive... no pinging / knocking..

More timing test will come this week.

I`m soooo sorrry taking your time, driving you insane on something so simple, but i was so shure that this couldn`t be a Vacuum leak, cause after changing to the Edelbrock 2711 (350 Olds) Performer Manifold on May 21st this Year i had a CO of 4 and the Mixture Screws have been adjustable.

[monzaz]

LOL. It is ok, BUT you kept going. Like I said there is ALWAYS a reason. Now I wish I could figure out my E85 issues with the race car...lol.

This is a GOOD thing and TIME is never wasted when your learning - We both have learned from this.

Like I did say it did sound like a Vacuum leak BUT where it was coming from was very weird. ....lol.
I might not have gone there either with out getting a bit violent.
Jim

[Nic_SwissCutlassDude]

LOL. It is ok, BUT you kept going.
Thanks for stickin`on it aswell.. i got into RAMBO Mode and still are.. hahaha

Like I said there is ALWAYS a reason.
yes you are right!

Now I wish I could figure out my E85 issues with the race car...lol.
can i see a picture of your race car? why do you use E85?

This is a GOOD thing and TIME is never wasted when your learning - We both have learned from this.
100% correct.. as tougher the Battle, as sweeter the victory.. but im still not there where i would like to be.
i have questions about the 3.08 Rear, but we talk soon about that. i hope you can offer me something.

Like I did say it did sound like a Vacuum leak BUT where it was coming from was very weird. ....lol.
I send these infos to Edelbrock and they never heard something like it ..

I might not have gone there either with out getting a bit violent.
hahahha.. it takes alot till i go Mad.. but i was there.. and it needed it to get solved.. crazy LOL
Brake Cleaner & RTV Silicone = 10USD...

Jim
I hope we can keep that Link of exchange! You are next Level!
Thanks you so much!
Greetings & Massive Respect from Switzerland
Nic

[monzaz]

E85 lets you run a High compression motor and at the time it was 250.00 a gallon. OR the alternative of 110 race fuel which is minimum for this 12.5 to 1 motor at 12 to 13 dollars a gallon...God....NO!... Jim

gave the car 1/2 sec on the Et also.
Runs the track fine full throttle...The second you let off it drowns... and puts the candles out and KEEPS on filling the cylinders washing them out and even one case hydro locked the cylinder.
We have done everything here.
2 different
carbs 3-4 different regulators
dead head and return fuel line
Played with float levels needle and seat sizes and material make.
fuel pressures
regulator in front of carb, behind carb
3 different fuel pumps.
6an to 8an return line
JUST lost as NOTHING has affected this end of track and after a 1 2 3 good burn out.
Not inertia from hitting brakes we played with that too. cross over tubes not hitting or letting off gas as hard..
We have 6 to 7 different guys try a tune and we ran their tunes... SAME end of track and NO visible change or deviation from the issue...???

Jim

[Nic_SwissCutlassDude]

hi Jim!
E85 lets you run a High compression motor and at the time it was 250.00 a gallon.
ooh.. okay

OR the alternative of 110 race fuel which is minimum for this 12.5 to 1 motor at 12 to 13 dollars a gallon...God....NO!...
Crazy!

I run "98 E5" Octane with my 10.66:1 Compression.. i hope thats fine
i had problems with the "95 E10" fuel.. or i maybe only dreaming that it causes a problem.. hhaha.

gave the car 1/2 sec on the Et also.
ET ?


Runs the track fine full throttle...The second you let off it drowns... and puts the candles out and KEEPS on filling the cylinders washing them out and even one case hydro locked the cylinder.
WTFunk.. !? when did that problem start, was there a time without this problem?

Flooding the Carb, killing Candles / Wet Spark Plugs?? washing the cylinders out..!
sounds like FUEL Pressure or maybe you have such a torque that the Carb Floaters can`t handle that Shock (Gravitation) and the lifting or twisting of the front Part of your Car, so that the Floaters can not close due the gravitation or something. (i don`t know..)

The second you let off it drowns...
What can cause a drowning like this?
coming from high RPM & Speed down, and keep filling the carb like on High RPM and doesnt Stop!
for me it sounds like a Gate, Regulator, kind of thing, "in" or "around" the Carb.
Step Up Stings (Vacuum Regulated / Edelbrock)
Jets Needles,.. something that doesn`t "pop" back into place or to late back into place so that it Floods.

Does it happen aswell if the cars doesn`t move? Just standing there and get it up to High Rpm in "Park" or "Neutral" and let it drop down, like simulating a "Run"..

[monzaz]

e thought the regulator too. had 3-4 different types on the car now.
2 different pumps
Never tried to simulate standing still. Revving never seemed to be an issue.
ONLY when we started on E85 has this problem occurred.
I have the gas carb back on and might make a few runs same set up but with gas carb and see if we get same deal.
It has to have something to do with pressure or volume control of the liquid...
Seems the car really eats the fuel and then the carb has to play catch up trying to fill the fuel in the bowls and maybe the float can not deal with the violent flood of fuel so quick and just can not seem to figure out where to be in the bowl as level and fuel flying in swirling in fast and maybe vacuum still pulling at top end of track when letting off ....we have to turn the pump off and on and off and pedal the car to help and then after about 1 minute of screwing around will get the idle back...??? weird.
Again we have tried the obvious things
throttle blades in primaries and slot control, fuel level in carb, fuel pressure from regulator, regulator in front and behind the carb, Fuel line return line size changes... But we always have had a 3 circuit carb also like demon (rebuilt from gas to E85) and Holley E85 (NEW)
I still think like you said it points to the regulator being an issue...Were going to try and stick a GO PRO on the fuel gauge and watch the video.
I can not keep my eyes on the gauge long enough to be safe while running.

Jim

[Nic_SwissCutlassDude]

wow.. looking forward to your "Go Pro" update!

very very interesting

Lets keep in touch

Greetings and all the best

Nic